I know I'll regret saying this, but Yoko needs to speak up and make a statement as the only one with sufficient credentials to defend his legacy. Changing those words makes the song meaningless. Imagine is one of the most well known songs, and not because of the music or that the structure of the song is so musically complex. It's not. It was one of the first tunes my piano teacher taught me. The song is notable for its message, and when you play around with the lyrics like that you destroy the meaning of the song. It would be like changing the chorus of The Who's "Won't get Fooled Again" to 'We won't get fooled again... by those nasty Democrats, vote Re-pub-li-CAN!'
Las Malvinas son Argentinas
JoinedPosts by Las Malvinas son Argentinas
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14
Changing the Words to John Lennon's IMAGINE
by OnTheWayOut inchildren were prompted to pay tribute to nelson mandella and sang john lennon's imagine.
whoever got this together changed the words.. .
it's supposed to say instead of "nothing below us," "no hell below us.".
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Nelson Mandela - comments of what his life meant to you
by MMXIV innelson mandela has passed on.
he was a symbol of hope and peace to many.
has his life and achievements meant anything personal to members of jwn?.
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Las Malvinas son Argentinas
His greatest moment came as he took power and made history - not by exacting vengeance on his oppressors but by reaching out to them and integrating them into the new SA nation-state. It was a smart move, as SA would have quickly become a new Zimbabwe had there been a huge rush to exit the country by the white minority. Zimbabwe is what happens when you violently try to reconcile your past. South Africa is what happens when you peacefully reconcile your past. Mandela held onto power seemingly only as long as he felt that he needed to. He could have easily become a Mugabe and still would have been in office to this day had he so desired. But he felt that he did all he could for his country by leading them out of apartheid, and gracefully handed over the reins to new leadership, thus sparing SA political instability and guided a natural evolution of leadership to take place.
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The Gall Of WT To Give This Advice To Pioneers:
by JW GoneBad inthis past week's wt study lesson was entitled: 'pioneering strengthens our relationship with god'.. under the subheading 'remaining in the full-time service' in par 14 the wt has the nerve to give this admonition to pioneers: .
'desiring to learn from jesus' example, a pioneer does well to keep in mind that the more material things he has, the more he will have to maintain , repair, or replace.'.
i don't think the gb or anyone in the writing department has the freedom to speak on giving adivce on the matter of 'material things' given the fact that wt has close to a billion dollars in real estate and loads of money in various bank accounts; given the fact that gb is currently building themselves new living quarters with who knows what sort of comforts and other amenities.
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Las Malvinas son Argentinas
I met Lösch at an international convention once. He was kind and personable, though his handlers quickly made excuses for him as they saw a queue develop. The group I was travelling with were at a restaurant later, and Lösch and friends were seated two tables away. He graciously declined our offer to have the waiter sit us at a larger table so that we all could associate. Fine, I thought. As we went over to say goodbye, he stopped us in our tracks and said that the convention program was over for the day, we should all go back to our hotels and get rested for the next day of the convention, and that he wasn't a tourist attraction. All we were doing was saying goodbye. The 'tourist attraction' was to come later as we went to go see an opera. These guys are used to thinking that they are the star of the show, and either consciously or subconsciously expect attention and/or adoration.
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For anybody who is going to dissassociate.......
by EndofMysteries ini haven't officially because of family.
but i see many times on this board those who do it it and write a letter to send a message.
(hoping it gets the elders reading it to think).
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Las Malvinas son Argentinas
It really depends on if you want to make waves or not, and whether or not you desire any contact from active JWs, from friends to close relatives. Disassociation and Disfellowshipping carry the same level of punishment. However, disassociation indicates that you voluntarily resigned and (so JWs would think) intentionally created a barrrier between you and the congregation. Being disfellowshipped leaves the lines more ambiguous, as people often speculate internally on what happened. Perhaps you didn't want this result? It's the age old argument of "They didn't fire me, I quit!". If there is satisfaction to be gained from knowing that, then great. But a DA letter is a very serious thing to do, as you will be burning many bridges. Some of these bridges might not have to have been burned in the first place. I've seen many come back from a DFing (myself included), but I have never seen a DA being reversed. A DA letter or stunt is great theatre, just be absolutely certain you wish to be the star of that particular show. Personally I prefer my privacy and keeping my truest feelings known to only people I can trust to keep them in confidence.
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A real difficult congregation???
by quellycatface inmyself and my family have had some odd experiences in our current congregation.
i have'nt been to meetings since september because of this.. 1. the co told the elder who was studying with my husband that he was doing it as an "academic exercise.
" my husband is very intelligent, been in the military, has a degree and a masters and a good job.
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Las Malvinas son Argentinas
That's the problem with the JWs. They are the worst place for people with mental conditions and chronic depression. Instead of pushing you toward getting real help in these struggles, they exacerbate the problems by guilting you into going into field service. That's the last thing you need.
If you haven't already, go to a physician and get diagnosed. Get on medication and present your 'doctor's note' to the elders. They are not going to like it much, but my guess is that they'll ease up on the pressure if you confront them with something like that.
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178
Honest survey question on effectiveness of 'apostacy'
by Simon init seems like lots of people have big dreams of 'destroying the watchtower'.
it's usually linked to a story of how they were wronged and want some revenge.
do these 'in your face' attempts to convince people that the truth isn't the truth really have an effect?.
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Las Malvinas son Argentinas
I guess one cannot be from South America and speak English at native or near native fluency.
No, I didn't say I could read your thoughts. You betrayed your inner thoughts by hinting at what you were thinking and your overall thought processes.
OK, so it's wrong in either instance. But whereas you'd have the moral authority to judge me, you'd unilaterally pass at the chance of judging someone else who had more of a reason. Isn't deciding who gets the blame and who does for doing the exact same thing being presumptuous? Whoever gave you that authority?
I think I've heard it all about efforts to harm him. He goes by an alias and had a thick cloud around him, which until recently he did everything to perpetuate. It was said on a related thread that only a handful of trusted people had his phone number and knew who he was. Even today after he has 'come out', no one can really identify him. So let's say the WT got wind of it here that he wasn't real but was the president of AAWA. Then let's say that they filed a complaint and started legal proceedings against AAWA. One thing leads to another and one of their demands is "Who is John Cedars?'. Guess what? No one outside his inner circle could identify him. No one is going to go get him. They don't have a special FBI plane that is going to go scoop an anonymous poster who started up an anti-WT group and incorporated it. The only person who'd really be on the hook would be Kelly, and I'd say that he'd deserve it for filing false info to begin with. I don't and didn't wish that calamity to befall them, yet I wouldn't have a whole lot of sympathy for them either. It's like the friend who was nabbed for shoplifting. I'm not going to flag down a security officer, but at the same time she deserves what is coming. All this bickering is clouding the fact that what I and other accused him of happened to be correct. If it wasn't then I'd be among those who'd admit they thought wrong.
But we weren't wrong. As it happened, AAWA figured it out and thought enough of it to post about it on their site that all board members were real. But it's the messenger, the message, and the impolite way it was being conveyed.
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Honest survey question on effectiveness of 'apostacy'
by Simon init seems like lots of people have big dreams of 'destroying the watchtower'.
it's usually linked to a story of how they were wronged and want some revenge.
do these 'in your face' attempts to convince people that the truth isn't the truth really have an effect?.
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Las Malvinas son Argentinas
Who brought up that Cedars was unpopular? He had his notable defenders, and yes, they were quite vocal in their defence of him. I'm afraid you have fallen for the common ex-JW meme that people really give a [poop] about us. AAWA? I doubt they were losing any sleep in Brooklyn. Same thing with Cedars. What I do take issue with is your stance that anyone not affected negatively by AAWA does not have a reason to 'harm' him. You stated earlier that you wouldn't have any problem with someone who was harmed by him or AAWA doing the same thing as I was doing online. So this is your hangup? So it's wrong for me to try to harm him, but it's perfectly alright with you if someone his organisation has outed had done the same thing? It's either right or it's wrong to 'harm' someone. It also betrays your own inner thoughts that if it would be OK for such a person to do so, then what I was saying in forum couldn't have been all that bad to begin with. If it were that harmful and he had a realistic chance of getting into trouble because of a bunch of loudmouths, then why would it be OK for someone else to do the same thing? Are you advocating vengeance?
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178
Honest survey question on effectiveness of 'apostacy'
by Simon init seems like lots of people have big dreams of 'destroying the watchtower'.
it's usually linked to a story of how they were wronged and want some revenge.
do these 'in your face' attempts to convince people that the truth isn't the truth really have an effect?.
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Las Malvinas son Argentinas
I did not use that defence. I created a hypothetical scenario where I assumed you were right about me trying to harm him. The first sentence should have clued you in. If you bothered to read further into what I was saying, you would have realised that I fully endorse what I view as my right to discuss this in forum. Within this realm you would have noticed my pointed comment about why I personally am being singled out for your condemnation. The answer always comes back to me as you and me have exchanged words before and you felt you had a score to settle. You couldn't settle it in forum or PMs, so you are doing so now long after the fact.
What does my claim to not be 'anti-activist' have anything to do with the AAWA alias issue? I am not anti-activist. I am against people using a non-profit status under a fictitious name, as well as an overall aversion to shady business practices, which I thought of this as.
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178
Honest survey question on effectiveness of 'apostacy'
by Simon init seems like lots of people have big dreams of 'destroying the watchtower'.
it's usually linked to a story of how they were wronged and want some revenge.
do these 'in your face' attempts to convince people that the truth isn't the truth really have an effect?.
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Las Malvinas son Argentinas
What kind of logic is that? So someone needs to be personally aggrieved by something to have the right to speak out about it? Glad you weren't around during the Holocaust.
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178
Honest survey question on effectiveness of 'apostacy'
by Simon init seems like lots of people have big dreams of 'destroying the watchtower'.
it's usually linked to a story of how they were wronged and want some revenge.
do these 'in your face' attempts to convince people that the truth isn't the truth really have an effect?.
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Las Malvinas son Argentinas
OK then, let's say for a second that I did try to harm him by saying that in forum. Just to amuse you. Do you realise that you have just accused many others of doing the same thing to him, unless you think that I was the only one bringing it up. As I said before, this did not originate with me. So you are saying that you had and have a problem with everyone who brought this subject up in forum? There were quite a few you know. That brings me back to why you chose not to call me (and others) out at the time of the discussion besides your turd comment. You said you thought we were incorrect at the time. Well were we? OK, no go on that one, so let's go to the messenger... Wait, let's choose one in particular (me) that you have had words with before and have sent angry PMs to in the past on a different matter. I think you are giving the WTS way too little credit to think that there are WT spies just ready to pounce on an idea forwarded by a poster here. If they had a problem with AAWA and wanted to bring it down, they would have done so easily, and with no help from us. This was all public record. In fact, the first thing they probably did in Brooklyn was to look at the public records and find out who was behind this organisation. Richard Kelly? Check. Barbara Anderson? Check. Known apostates. John Cedars? Who the hell is that? Well, let's use this Google tool and find out. So this is a fake name he is using! It doesn't take a whole lot of sleuthing to figure that one out. What we were trying to do was get him to resign his position before the WTS noticed. While there was still time. When he could still realistically say 'aw shucks, I didn't know about Arizona law, in fact I'm not even American'. So if you want to say that I was trying to harm him singlehanded by agreeing with what others were saying about the issue and by using public records that anyone could look at, then you got me.